Poll: 2.5T Coolant Leak/Engine Replacement

[yrwei52]

You don't have to pay $8k, you can source a used engine, or buy the required parts outlined in the TSB and then have a reputable independent shop replace the engine or replace the cracked cylinder head. You might pay half of that.

I used to suggest getting a used engine to replace the damaged one under this unfortunate situation. But boy how the thing has changed after pandemic with the crazy inflation! It used to be $1,000 ~ $2,000 for a good used engine, sometimes I even saw hundreds, now it’s $5,000 and more!!! With additional labor charge from a reputable indie shop, it could be very close to $7,000 nowadays to go the used engine route. I can longer suggest this route unless the price on used engines drops to the pre-pandemic level.

The only cheaper way to get out of this unfortunate situation is what @AutoDesignR has done, buy all the parts listed in the TSB for $1,000, DIY to remove the engine, and replace the cylinder head and exhaust manifold gasket with the updated ones. Try to find an indie shop to do this for labor may be an alternative.

Sorry for the difficult situation @Mazda_petal has encountered and looks like there’s not much she can do but take a big loss.

 

[AutoDesignR]

Whatever you decide to do, document everything with receipts and paperwork. Class action lawsuit is still available as I believe more owners will experience this failure over time. A good attorney or pressure on Mazda from NHTSA when someone gets injured or killed in an accident that results from engine failure could result in reimbursement from Mazda.

 

[ctbale]

Need to do a $25 oil analysis to see if coolant contaminated the oil. Also scan for overheat codes. If no to both you could do a head replacement with a new updated head assy. The parts cost about $1200 max, the rest is labor. I think book on a head replacement is 17 hrs. Best to drop the engine out on the subframe. Find a REAL mechanic. Not a dealership

 

[JPL]

So an engine with 60K on it is $5K. But a new engine from Mazda6 installed at the dealer is $8K? Not a chance in hell I'd ever do the used option. Installed, that used engine is probably $6,500-$7,000? That's insane.

 

[Rivenage]

I discovered a coolant leak on my 2017 CX-9 on Saturday, December 2nd. Car has a little under 121k miles. Outside Mazda Warranty, Outside a third party extended warranty that stopped at 85k which I intentionally purchased due to the early generation turbo engine. I'm the only owner. Guess I just didn't sell it soon enough. I had noticed earlier in the week that my engine fan continued running for a few seconds after shutting off the car, which is a sign that the engine/coolant is hotter than expected after shutting off. Prior to this, there had been no evidence of any leaks. 60k service was performed at the dealership, after which I started doing maintenance on my own and with third party car shop.

Start RANT and Timeline:
On Monday, December 4th, I took the car to my preferred third party car shop, where they confirmed the location of the coolant leak to be around the turbo at the engine block. It was after that in which we discovered the associated Reddit feed which linked to this forum post and the Technical Service Bulletin. We decided to take it to the the dealership (same that I purchased at), as that was our best bet to get it repaired. The dealership has been great throughout the process, and on Tuesday, December 5th, estimated at least $8000 to replace the engine, which was well above the difference between the scrap value, and KBB valuation. After receiving that repair estimate I immediately contacted Mazda USA, and the dealership independently contacted Mazda USA to request assistance. They said they would have a response to the request in 24-48 hours. Right around 48 hours I did receive a call, but I missed it. They left me a voicemail, and I tried calling back within ~2 hours. At that point I called back at least 20 times, left 1 voicemail, 3 calls I spoke to other representatives who couldn't tell me any additional details except that my assigned case representative would call me back. Approximately 24 hours after the original call, my case representative finally called me back.

Outcome:
Mazda USA offered to compensate me $800 towards the $8000 repair. The $800 was primarily based on the mileage of the vehicle according to the case representative. No negotiating. Alternatively if I were to trade in my CX-9 to the dealership, they could arrange employee/family pricing on a new Mazda. No Thanks. In a matter of about a week my car lost essentially half its value due to this mechanical design error.

I will most likely be trading in my car to the dealership for a used non-Mazda as they gave me a better valuation than a nationwide auction/scrap business.

 

[Tchman2016]

I discovered a coolant leak on my 2017 CX-9 on Saturday, December 2nd. Car has a little under 121k miles. Outside Mazda Warranty, Outside a third party extended warranty that stopped at 85k which I intentionally purchased due to the early generation turbo engine. I'm the only owner. Guess I just didn't sell it soon enough. I had noticed earlier in the week that my engine fan continued running for a few seconds after shutting off the car, which is a sign that the engine/coolant is hotter than expected after shutting off. Prior to this, there had been no evidence of any leaks. 60k service was performed at the dealership, after which I started doing maintenance on my own and with third party car shop.

Start RANT and Timeline:
On Monday, December 4th, I took the car to my preferred third party car shop, where they confirmed the location of the coolant leak to be around the turbo at the engine block. It was after that in which we discovered the associated Reddit feed which linked to this forum post and the Technical Service Bulletin. We decided to take it to the the dealership (same that I purchased at), as that was our best bet to get it repaired. The dealership has been great throughout the process, and on Tuesday, December 5th, estimated at least $8000 to replace the engine, which was well above the difference between the scrap value, and KBB valuation. After receiving that repair estimate I immediately contacted Mazda USA, and the dealership independently contacted Mazda USA to request assistance. They said they would have a response to the request in 24-48 hours. Right around 48 hours I did receive a call, but I missed it. They left me a voicemail, and I tried calling back within ~2 hours. At that point I called back at least 20 times, left 1 voicemail, 3 calls I spoke to other representatives who couldn't tell me any additional details except that my assigned case representative would call me back. Approximately 24 hours after the original call, my case representative finally called me back.

Outcome:
Mazda USA offered to compensate me $800 towards the $8000 repair. The $800 was primarily based on the mileage of the vehicle according to the case representative. No negotiating. Alternatively if I were to trade in my CX-9 to the dealership, they could arrange employee/family pricing on a new Mazda. No Thanks. In a matter of about a week my car lost essentially half its value due to this mechanical design error.

I will most likely be trading in my car to the dealership for a used non-Mazda as they gave me a better valuation than a nationwide auction/scrap business.

Clean up the car, detail it, wash coolant off back of engine, sell to carmax, carvana, echopark, vroom etc. Go to their website and get a quote for selling to them. Go to the best offer place and collect check.They will most likely send to auction anyhow so will give you fair market value better than dealer trade value as if it did not have the issue which you have no idea whats wrong with it. They will not inspect.

 

[AutoDesignR]

I discovered a coolant leak on my 2017 CX-9 on Saturday, December 2nd. Car has a little under 121k miles. Outside Mazda Warranty, Outside a third party extended warranty that stopped at 85k which I intentionally purchased due to the early generation turbo engine. I'm the only owner. Guess I just didn't sell it soon enough. I had noticed earlier in the week that my engine fan continued running for a few seconds after shutting off the car, which is a sign that the engine/coolant is hotter than expected after shutting off. Prior to this, there had been no evidence of any leaks. 60k service was performed at the dealership, after which I started doing maintenance on my own and with third party car shop.

Start RANT and Timeline:
On Monday, December 4th, I took the car to my preferred third party car shop, where they confirmed the location of the coolant leak to be around the turbo at the engine block. It was after that in which we discovered the associated Reddit feed which linked to this forum post and the Technical Service Bulletin. We decided to take it to the the dealership (same that I purchased at), as that was our best bet to get it repaired. The dealership has been great throughout the process, and on Tuesday, December 5th, estimated at least $8000 to replace the engine, which was well above the difference between the scrap value, and KBB valuation. After receiving that repair estimate I immediately contacted Mazda USA, and the dealership independently contacted Mazda USA to request assistance. They said they would have a response to the request in 24-48 hours. Right around 48 hours I did receive a call, but I missed it. They left me a voicemail, and I tried calling back within ~2 hours. At that point I called back at least 20 times, left 1 voicemail, 3 calls I spoke to other representatives who couldn't tell me any additional details except that my assigned case representative would call me back. Approximately 24 hours after the original call, my case representative finally called me back.

Outcome:
Mazda USA offered to compensate me $800 towards the $8000 repair. The $800 was primarily based on the mileage of the vehicle according to the case representative. No negotiating. Alternatively if I were to trade in my CX-9 to the dealership, they could arrange employee/family pricing on a new Mazda. No Thanks. In a matter of about a week my car lost essentially half its value due to this mechanical design error.

I will most likely be trading in my car to the dealership for a used non-Mazda as they gave me a better valuation than a nationwide auction/scrap business.

Curious to know what your coolant overflow tank looks like? Mine has a brown film lining the inside of the tank - even above the fill line. Coolant appears clean. I believe this is the result of exhaust gases getting into the coolant long before the external leak appears. Exhaust gases end up in the coolant and collect on the walls of the tank. Could be an early indication that there’s an internal crack and time to get rid of it.

 

[yrwei52]

I discovered a coolant leak on my 2017 CX-9 on Saturday, December 2nd. Car has a little under 121k miles.

Although it’s unfortunate, but honestly at 121K miles no car company would do anything to help you on this. Take @Tchman2016‘s advise and get rid of the CX-9.

 

[yrwei52]

Curious to know what your coolant overflow tank looks like? Mine has a brown film lining the inside of the tank - even above the fill line. Coolant appears clean. I believe this is the result of exhaust gases getting into the coolant long before the external leak appears. Exhaust gases end up in the coolant and collect on the walls of the tank. Could be an early indication that there’s an internal crack and time to get rid of it.

Yes, I agree. Don’t wait until it’s too late.

 

[AutoDesignR]

Although it’s unfortunate, but honestly at 121K miles no car company would do anything to help you on this. Take @Tchman2016‘s advise and get rid of the CX-9.

Honda rebuilt my engine on a 2010 CR/V at 124,000 miles. They had a recall for “Excessive Oil Consumption” that provided a software update to “fix” the oil light coming on. After lots of complaints from customers (including myself), they issued an extended warranty, up to 125,000 miles of the car was consuming more than a qt of oil in 1000 miles. I had the car fixed by the dealer. Sold it and will never buy another Honda. It had a lot of known AC issues too.
Mazda could extend their warranty for this engine issue, but it appears they are past that point. No modem engine should fail like this at less than 300k miles. How embarrassing for Mazda….

 

[sm1ke]

They had a recall

That's the difference

No modem engine should fail like this at less than 300k miles. How embarrassing for Mazda….

And yet every single manufacturer has examples of cars failing well before the 300k mark. I wouldn't single Mazda out.

 

[LeSheep]

I discovered a coolant leak on my 2017 CX-9 on Saturday, December 2nd. Car has a little under 121k miles. Outside Mazda Warranty, Outside a third party extended warranty that stopped at 85k which I intentionally purchased due to the early generation turbo engine. I'm the only owner. Guess I just didn't sell it soon enough. I had noticed earlier in the week that my engine fan continued running for a few seconds after shutting off the car, which is a sign that the engine/coolant is hotter than expected after shutting off. Prior to this, there had been no evidence of any leaks. 60k service was performed at the dealership, after which I started doing maintenance on my own and with third party car shop.

Start RANT and Timeline:
On Monday, December 4th, I took the car to my preferred third party car shop, where they confirmed the location of the coolant leak to be around the turbo at the engine block. It was after that in which we discovered the associated Reddit feed which linked to this forum post and the Technical Service Bulletin. We decided to take it to the the dealership (same that I purchased at), as that was our best bet to get it repaired. The dealership has been great throughout the process, and on Tuesday, December 5th, estimated at least $8000 to replace the engine, which was well above the difference between the scrap value, and KBB valuation. After receiving that repair estimate I immediately contacted Mazda USA, and the dealership independently contacted Mazda USA to request assistance. They said they would have a response to the request in 24-48 hours. Right around 48 hours I did receive a call, but I missed it. They left me a voicemail, and I tried calling back within ~2 hours. At that point I called back at least 20 times, left 1 voicemail, 3 calls I spoke to other representatives who couldn't tell me any additional details except that my assigned case representative would call me back. Approximately 24 hours after the original call, my case representative finally called me back.

Outcome:
Mazda USA offered to compensate me $800 towards the $8000 repair. The $800 was primarily based on the mileage of the vehicle according to the case representative. No negotiating. Alternatively if I were to trade in my CX-9 to the dealership, they could arrange employee/family pricing on a new Mazda. No Thanks. In a matter of about a week my car lost essentially half its value due to this mechanical design error.

I will most likely be trading in my car to the dealership for a used non-Mazda as they gave me a better valuation than a nationwide auction/scrap business.

How did you notice the leak? Coolant on ground/under car?

 

[Fruitwolf]

Has anyone figured out the average mileage at which the heinous crack appears?

 

[kyleylee55]

There are a few threads regarding the 2.5 turbo coolant leak problem and ultimately having to replace the engine. What I'd like to know is there anything that can be inspected and possibly fixed with this issue before it gets to the point of actually needing a new engine?

Edit:
I updated the thread to include a poll now of who is and isn't having this issue.

If you've had this done, please comment on the model year, how many miles you had when it occurred, when you first noticed the issue, if Mazda covered the cost under warranty, and any other details.

Also those with higher miles and no issues let us know how many miles so far.

MOD EDIT: With regard to the poll, please understand that this poll does not accurately represent how prevalent this issue is. It is a voluntary poll, posted on an online forum that most people typically join to get answers to issues they are having. The poll does not take into account members who chose not to participate, members from other social media platforms, or non-members with (or without) this issue.

I have a Mazda CX-5 GTR 2019, cylinder head cracked at 67,800 miles. (Just shy 7,000 miles from power warranty train). Just bought the car in May 2023 with 50k miles, cylinder head cracked November 2023.

Contacted Mazda USA to help plead with a Case #. Then brought my car to a bad Mazda dealership that estimated to fix for $7,000 for the cylinder head replacement. Keep in mind ( Cylinder head part only cost $1k-2k) labor cost was upcharged at the dealership…

Then proceeded to fight with the dealership through text/email with the help of Mazda USA to get the estimate down and back me up, in short, was able to only pay $250.00 out of pocket.

FYI: Have Mazda USA fight for your case or else the dealership will rack up the estimate to fix your Mazda by a lot..$$$$. This issue is a Mazda issue, they need to take care of it. They are facing an active Law Suit, they will have to fix it or else they will get sued and get them selfs into other things.

#Beware/Take notes and be persistent on getting Mazda to fix this for you for lower than $1,000.

 

[PTguy]

...I believe this is the result of exhaust gases getting into the coolant long before the external leak appears. Exhaust gases end up in the coolant and collect on the walls of the tank. Could be an early indication that there’s an internal crack and time to get rid of it.

Do we know if the crack can be internal between an exhaust passage and a coolant passage? That might be; I've only heard of the visible external cracks leaking coolant down the back of the engine.

Has anyone figured out the average mileage at which the heinous crack appears?

Is this failure in any way mileage related? I know, the more miles the more accumulated stress from the turbo & exhaust manifold weight carried by the head casting. We also don't know if certain heads are thinner in spots or other seemingly minor defects than other heads of the same model year. It would help if Mazda could identify certain production lots of the heads that are prone to cracking.

I'm carrying a coolant leak kit in the car and keep the engine thermometer showing in the dash all the time. As long as the needle is a bit left of the center mark, I'm good. My leak kit is a gallon of FL22 coolant and a package of Bar's Leaks Radiator Stop Leak tablets. If I notice low coolant or any degree of overheating and coolant loss I'll stop, let the engine cool, follow the directions for the stop leak tablets, refill, and head for a non-Mazda dealer (after cleaning off the green residue on the engine) who is part of an ownership that also owns a Mazda store. That Bar's Leaks product was recommended by the tech support staff at Bar's Leaks after I described the problem. I'll buy what I want and never buy another Mazda. Too many Mazda parts that should not fail have failed...gen.1 CX-9 transfer cases & poor choice of an engine to put in, gen.2 rear brake calipers, cracked cylinder head, clogged heater core.

 

[Fruitwolf]

I ordered an oil test kit. This coming oil change, I’ll sample and send for evaluation. Hoping that will shed light on my 2018.

 

[Rivenage]

Curious to know what your coolant overflow tank looks like? Mine has a brown film lining the inside of the tank - even above the fill line. Coolant appears clean. I believe this is the result of exhaust gases getting into the coolant long before the external leak appears. Exhaust gases end up in the coolant and collect on the walls of the tank. Could be an early indication that there’s an internal crack and time to get rid of it.

Unfortunately, I already got rid of it by the time I logged back in to see this response. I can't say I noticed any film inside the reservoir, but it was 120k dirty...

 

[Rivenage]

How did you notice the leak? Coolant on ground/under car?

First sign was the sweet odor of what I can only describe as maple syrup. This occured before any visible signs of coolant under the car ever showed up, and a matter of days before I took it to the shop and they identified and located the leak.

 

[Rivenage]

I discovered a coolant leak on my 2017 CX-9 on Saturday, December 2nd. Car has a little under 121k miles. Outside Mazda Warranty, Outside a third party extended warranty that stopped at 85k which I intentionally purchased due to the early generation turbo engine. I'm the only owner. Guess I just didn't sell it soon enough. I had noticed earlier in the week that my engine fan continued running for a few seconds after shutting off the car, which is a sign that the engine/coolant is hotter than expected after shutting off. Prior to this, there had been no evidence of any leaks. 60k service was performed at the dealership, after which I started doing maintenance on my own and with third party car shop.

Start RANT and Timeline:
On Monday, December 4th, I took the car to my preferred third party car shop, where they confirmed the location of the coolant leak to be around the turbo at the engine block. It was after that in which we discovered the associated Reddit feed which linked to this forum post and the Technical Service Bulletin. We decided to take it to the the dealership (same that I purchased at), as that was our best bet to get it repaired. The dealership has been great throughout the process, and on Tuesday, December 5th, estimated at least $8000 to replace the engine, which was well above the difference between the scrap value, and KBB valuation. After receiving that repair estimate I immediately contacted Mazda USA, and the dealership independently contacted Mazda USA to request assistance. They said they would have a response to the request in 24-48 hours. Right around 48 hours I did receive a call, but I missed it. They left me a voicemail, and I tried calling back within ~2 hours. At that point I called back at least 20 times, left 1 voicemail, 3 calls I spoke to other representatives who couldn't tell me any additional details except that my assigned case representative would call me back. Approximately 24 hours after the original call, my case representative finally called me back.

Outcome:
Mazda USA offered to compensate me $800 towards the $8000 repair. The $800 was primarily based on the mileage of the vehicle according to the case representative. No negotiating. Alternatively if I were to trade in my CX-9 to the dealership, they could arrange employee/family pricing on a new Mazda. No Thanks. In a matter of about a week my car lost essentially half its value due to this mechanical design error.

I will most likely be trading in my car to the dealership for a used non-Mazda as they gave me a better valuation than a nationwide auction/scrap business.

I know there are plenty of Mazda fans that have, and will continue to, reply to this thread and other posters stories both defending Mazda for not needing to help repair cars outside their warranty and advising to dishonestly ditch the car on some other business/person in order to get more money out of your broken car. That's not who I am as a person and I wouldn't ever wish some other innocent person have the opportunity to buy a car with a hidden major issue. The entire point of this thread is to document that this is not a one off failure of a vehicle before 300k miles, it's a documented design flaw that was corrected. There is likely no way to predict the failure, and as a business with such a low failure rate, I would never expect them to issue a recall. But they could extend the warranty, or they could offer more assistance to individuals with documented evidence at a Mazda dealership. Everything that resulted from my engine failure was exactly what should have been expected by the letter of the law, as my car was certainly outside of the warranty period, but no one should expect their engine to fail at 120k miles. I did not expect any handouts, as I wasn't owed anything, but I was hopeful they might do a previously loyal customer right based on the low number of failures. It's also entirely possible that Mazda USA was going to offset more money to help the dealership repair the car, but I could not wait around for a second week without a vehicle only to find out that it still wasn't enough to make it financially responsible to repair. Albeit low, there also is still a chance for a lawsuit some day, so I am simply doing my part to document and share our experience for the hopeful benefit of another person.

 

[PTguy]

There is likely no way to predict the failure

I disagree. Was the testing extensive enough? Did Mazda run round-the-clock driving on a simulated street track with pro drivers for a few hundred thousand miles? This probably would have shown up. Or were the heads cast under-spec? And was adequate quality control testing done? As well as the defectively designed rear brake calipers on the 2016 (see the TSB). And the clogged heater cores we're hearing about due to excessively long recommended coolant drain intervals. Ditto for their choices in the gen 1 cars, the transfer cases that turned into briquets and the choice of buying that Ford engine with the disastrous water pump. No cars are perfect, never have been, never will be. But some things that should have been found were not, and Mazda should cover their negligence.

If I do everything listed in the owner's manual (except using the dealership for maintenance*), then I expect the car to last a few hundred thousand miles these days. In what way am I wrong? (*My nearest dealer is 1-1/2 hours away, an oil change takes a half day with driving time, and the all-stars there lied and failed to change the oil & filter on the car's first time, so I haven't been back.)